Yesterday I became bothered enough about a trend in the photo community to sit down and write some thoughts about it. I know that by even getting two sentences into this article, I’ve already let the terrorists win, but like James Hetfield says: “Fight fire with fire.”
Twitter, Facebook, and the blogosphere have their own special breed of thugs and vandals. Personas that exist solely for the purpose of intimidating, ridiculing, and generally tearing down anybody who dares to step into the spotlight. I’m sure that, privately, these people fancy themselves as some sort of guerilla fighters, striking out from the underground to save the common people from an oppressive elite. They see the Jasmine Stars and Dane Sanders of the world as egomaniacal parasites that feed on the naive. These self-styled warriors of freedom and truth spend their time taking pot-shots from behind anonymous online personas, sparing no opportunity to ridicule and slander industry leaders.
Sure, at first, the pointed barbs and cynical jabs were funny, and maybe even on point. We all could use a bit of sarcasm to blow off steam now and again. Anyone that knows me well knows that I can rant and bitch about the world as well as anyone. But at a certain point it begins to represent the kind of negative worldview that makes you, literally, a loser. If all you see are problems, and all our heroes are your villains, it has a tendency to drag you down. Devoting an entire website or Twitter account to burning shit down isn’t just depressing, it’s dysfunctional. Time you spend wallowing in bitterness, anger, and self-pity is time that you’re NOT spending doing something productive.
To be more succinct – toddlers cry and hit things when they don’t like the way the world is working (trust me, I have one). Adults, by contrast, figure out how to fix it. They get up off their asses and work at making the world a better place. If all you do is bitch and moan, you’re basically a two-year-old.
Of course, no REAL people spend 100% of their time complaining, or they wouldn’t have any friends. The fact that people don’t want to hang out with adults that are emotional children is what keeps us from saying everything that pops into our heads. That filter is an important social construct. But online, with relative anonymity, that social pressure is removed. Most of us still behave like adults, but some of us let our inner toddler out, and start peeing in the pool and biting other people’s ears, knowing that there won’t be any consequences. It’s kinda cute the first time your kid throws a fit. After that, it’s grating and exhausting. For me, endless stream of cynicism is long past the point of being cute.
Furthermore, the real way to build a better world is not to concentrate all your energy on tearing it down. If you’re angry, channel that anger into something positive. If you don’t like the way the photo industry looks, take positive steps to make it better. Shine the spotlight on people who you think deserve it, instead of trying to break the damned spotlight. Tell us how things should be, instead of focusing on how they shouldn’t be. Champion things that work, instead of ridiculing the things that don’t. That’s how our leaders got to where they are. If you don’t like them, then be better at showing us how to do it. There’s no use talking about the problem unless you talk about the solution.
Yes, dialog needs to happen. When industry leaders step out of line, we DO have a responsibility to call them on it. When the emperor is naked, we should absolutely tell them so. Someone needs to be checking the kool-aid before we all drink it. But it’s a slippery slope to do so anonymously because it’s too easy to turn into a negative asshole. No one is there to give you a time-out when you take it too far. But if you have something to say, if you’re truly a champion of The Truth™, then you should be proud to own your words and thoughts. If you have to say it anonymously, then you probably know you shouldn’t be saying it. And if someone can’t be bothered to stand behind what they’re saying, I can’t imagine why anyone would give them any credibility.
So I’m officially calling out all the anonymous cynics on the interwebs, both in and out of the photo world. Stop behaving like children. If you have something important to say, then say it and stand behind it. Otherwise, STFU and GTFO. And by the way, your diaper could use a change.
Matt,
As far as your anonymous letters in someone’s mailbox goes, how are people to know that it isn’t a competitor of the roofing company that’s leaving the letters? If they were really “doing the Lord’s work” and saving little old ladies from getting ripped off, why not sign their name and get they thanks they deserve? Why not let people know you have a credible opinion instead of just taking pot shots from the cheap seats?
And who’s to say that everyone, if anyone at all, is getting ripped off? Just because you or the anonymous posters don’t need any help because you guys are so talented and big time, doesn’t mean that other people don’t need help and may be willing to pay for information. Why do you care what others do? Why not concentrate on your own business and quit worrying about what others are doing?
I’m all for people being accountable and I respect people who have the guts to voice their opinions and stand by it (like yourself), but I think it’s pretty indefensible when people are siding with with folks whose sole purpose is to spread hate.
I’ve posted a video reply to doug’s post at http://bit.ly/netcourage
Wow, perfection. I’m not even a photog and I am ready to go to battle with you!
Let me give you an example. I do agree that the anony’s have gotten out of hand.
I’m not in the wedding industry, I’m in the portrait and commercial industries.
Years ago, I was involved in something with another photographer who ended up doing things very unethical regarding workshops.
I was told by my peers to shut up and not say anything for “political reasons” Political reasons? In the portrait industry? WTH?, right?
I couldn’t take it anymore after this person went one step further and lied about payment that she had promised me for a speaker fee. I had about six people that could back me up, and two other very well known photogs had a similar experience to me in the way of “speaking”.
There’s a review board that popped up and people were starting to post reviews. I was so irritated that people were reviewing anonymously but having experienced the situation, I knew they were telling the truth. They felt conned and screwed over. Because they were anonys, the one being reviewed against threw a fit, and the reviews were taken down.
I started speaking a little bit about the situation, covering facts only – facts about some of what was taught at the workshop was downright lies, and while it was okay for all kinds of photogs to complain about someone else who was “conning” in the portrait industry, it was not okay for me to say anything about this particular photog, so I was suspended from a forum for doing so. Come to find out, the owner of the forum was being threatened with legal action if I spoke about my experience. Yes, anyone can sue anyone for anything.
So then I understand why so many anonys, especially when I started receiving Cease and Desists – one of them from our own PPA lawyer who once he found out I was part of the PPA, he dropped it. But even he was being conned, and said to me “Off the record, even though you are stating what happened to you, would you please remove it? XXXX would really appreciate it if you removed it”. WTF? I’m not allowed to state what happened to me? Seriously? Even a PPA lawyer wouldn’t agree with me standing up for what’s ethical in our industry? I didn’t remove it, just tamed it down. I still don’t like it that my voice was not allowed to be heard because I used my name behind it.
So when I see this “Truth Movement” thing where lots of people are pissed off and posting anonymous… I totally understand their frustration…. but it does also piss me off that people won’t stand behind their names. Even when I was going through all that crap I talk about above, so many people were downright AFRAID of speaking up against this photographer because of the hissy fit she was throwing threatening everyone who spoke up. These women were scared of her. And since many of these talented and amazing women felt they were really “no names” in the industry, they were absolutely terrified of speaking up against her because she had created her own world of followers with promises of fulfilled dreams and rainbows and ponies….
I even had a UK wedding photographer come to one of my workshops this year telling me how his friends in the UK were screwed over by a con artist workshop speaker here.
Doug, I’m sure you haven’t been screwed over to the magnitude that some of these anonys have been. Damn, I don’t think you have even been screwed over ever as badly as I have and my name is nowhere near as big as yours. Gary Fong just spoke up not too long ago about some con artists in the industry, and I guarantee you he didn’t have the C&Ds that I did…
There are bullies in this industry, and many people are afraid to out them.
I wish they would do it with their names as I myself have had to endure the wrath of using my name, but I do understand the fear of having to deal with legal battles – because at some point, it’s your word against theirs, and unless there are enough people willing to stand behind your names, your one little voice (if not one of the megaphotog names), will simply be squashed.
So for all the “great post” people – until you have been seriously screwed over, I don’t think you can see both sides of this. I wish everyone the best and do agree con artists need to be called out with some legit names behind them… that’s why I look for people like Doug Boutwell and the like to not put posts up that are defending people like that, or defending bad pricing or bad business practices (the Alicia Caine pricing comes to mind – unless you are in the commercial industry, you probably don’t realize how wrong it is to price a full library buyout commercial job for 5 grand). I want to see industry leaders tell it like it is – we need to be ethical, and correct in the way we run our businesses. These are the voices that can be heard and well respected.
Whoohoo! Awesome! Well said. Excellent points. Thank you. :D
I’m more or less with Matt and Jodie on this one. Yes, there is huge potential for abuse in anonymous criticism, and I’m sure unscrupulous people will jump on it, the same way you get fake negative reviews on things like Yelp and Google Maps. But in the meantime there’s a lot of borderline fraud in this industry, and a lot of what’s been going on so far has just been the revealing of that.
I’ve let people who take my workshops and classes know that they can post their feelings, good or bad, without fear of reprisal. Not only is it ethical, it helps me become a better teacher. I ask people to dig deep and show me ways I can be better, in photography and teaching. And if a criticism seems unfounded or based on missed expectations, I just talk it out.
But you know that’s not the norm. People have a lot of money riding on these, and yes, a lot of these people are doing deeply unscrupulous things in the first place, including fraudulent claims from some of the biggest names around. I’ve seen it, and I’ve called people on it, but even I’m scared to shout it from the rooftops, because I KNOW it would cost me not insignificant amounts of money.
No, I don’t have an anonymous Twitter account, but I understand the frustration that have made them so popular.
Strangely (or perhaps tellingly) it seems that it’s primarily the newbies in here who don’t want their heroes called to task, anonymously or otherwise. It further seems that those who have a dog in this fight…i.e., photographers who are moving away from actual photography and into the seminar and product-sales arena…also resist any criticism of this trend.
When I posted publicly on Facebook about an upcoming “Badass Photographer” seminar, I was raked over the coals by a whole passel of glassy-eyed newbs. Without exception, these people had been “in business” for 2 or 3 or maybe 4 years. But they sure had strong opinions!
The others who came out vehemently against my opinions were, of course, the seminar givers themselves. Duh.
So: I had presented my opinions (using my name), based on 27 years of industry experience, and was subjected to vile name-calling and hate mail from a bunch of desperate, snot-nosed beginners. In fairness, I cannot prove that they actually had snot in their noses, but the overall tone of their replies definitely suggested it. So I can absolutely, positively, DEFINITELY understand why some people present their information in an anonymous fashion. Doug says it removes the credibility of the info. I say it removes the element of personal attacks.
Further, since I know that much of the information that has been discussed by these anonymous sources is TRUE, I know that they are credible. They are just choosing discretion as the better part of valor.
I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to measure a person’s credibility based largely upon level of experience. If you’ve been a “pro” for two years, that’s great…sit back and learn. But don’t prattle on as if you know everything there is to know about the inner workings of our industry. Remember, two ears and only one mouth, and so forth. Listen and TRULY learn, to avoid being taken in by the snake-oil salesmen (and women) who have been “shooting” for a whole FIVE years.
Doug Wrote:
(italicized) …the way to win the war of ideas is with better ideas. Not by tearing the world down 140 indiscriminate characters at a time. Real people with real names need to write intelligent, well reasoned critisicms of the things that are wrong with this world, and then they need to propose a way forward (/italicized).
Here’s the fundamental flaw in your thinking, Doug; You actually believe these [P]eckers are trying to win a war. Whereas I believe they’re trying to START a war. Part of me believes they’re pissed because they haven’t figured out how to sell anything. 1) They don’t know photoshop, so they can’t develop actions. 2) They suck at photography, so they can’t sell a workshop, though that hasn’t stopped anyone in the past. LOL 3) Their business is in the crapper, so they can’t teach marketing/business 101. Though #3 probably gives these turds an inordinate amount of time to troll on Twitter and Facebook. …Or this thread. Hell, Koolaid posts something every 1 to 2 minutes for his massive 394 followers.
Speaking of those [P]eckers; they are predictable, aren’t they? And thanks to this thread, they’re going to have a banner week. To bad they’re not getting paid for their efforts. LOL
@ Matt, are you calling me a little old lady?
I should start by fixing one of my comments; “The rest of us need to ignore the ANONYMOUS rants.” 6 months ago someone on a Flickr forum posted a list to several of these twitter ranters. I probably spent 5-minutes reading some of the drivel, got bored, and never returned (until 10-minutes ago -purely for research purposes only). …and this is coming from someone with a raging case of ADD. LOL
No, I’m not using “Buyer Beware” as an excuse for the conning. As a consumer, I fully expect there will be a diverse range of products in the market place. There is always a good product sitting on the shelf next to a bad product. In the end, consumers need to figure it out. As a little old lady, I wouldn’t buy a $3,000 TV if I didn’t spend some time researching which set best fits my needs based on IQ, features, build quality/longevity. I’m going to read PROFESSIONAL and legit consumer reviews; not anonymous rants**.
Speaking of the little old lady/roofing analogy (Call Mike Holmes), I say “we’re not little old ladies”. We’re supposed to be savvy business people. But to humor your analogy; if you are a little old lady, and you buy everything everyone is selling you, then I believe you have absolutely NO business acumen (common sense), and your business deserves to fail. Call it…..thinning the herd.
It’s pretty easy math. If you can’t afford a $1,500-$4,000 workshop, don’t go. I remember reading a thread on Gary Fong’s blog where people were bitching about the price of these workshops (David Jay’s? Maybe?), and how it’s going to take 5 years to pay off the workshop bill. UM! “DON’T GO, STUPID! Your kids need to eat”.
If you did attend a $4,000 workshop (that you could afford), and you didn’t learn anything of value, or you were gravely misled (conned?), then take up your complaint with the provider. If they don’t offer a refund, the speak your voice, and don’t hide behind an unclever internet nickname. And here’s the rub; even if you didn’t learn squat, it’s possible someone else sitting next to you found the workshop rather worthy.
**But these rants, as I stated above, are neither here nor there. These [P]eckers simply want attention, and we’re giving it to them. We’re validating their existence.
If you don’t believe me, I just visited a couple of those twitter accounts from the flickr thread links, and more than half haven’t posted anything in several months. Wedding Douche has all of 63 followers. PhotoDivo has all of 93 followers. Most of those followers are probably from the other [P]eckers. The ones that are still active are taking random shots with no particular agenda and they twitter to each other. IE, They’re BORED! trolls.
As I said before, ignore ‘em, and let ‘em talk to each other. They at least found friends with a common interest. LOL
c
Is this article in regard to the flack you got for that pricing guide disaster you posted on your blog the other day?
Let’s face it, pricing jobs based on a “happy place” is not good advice to give to people starting up. Photography as a business must work with realistic numbers this means pricing based on cost of operation is mandatory for anyone looking to survive in this industry.
Don’t give out bad advice, and be surprised when you’re called on it. Anonymous or not, they made some valid points.
Here’s some great advice, a great pricing guide, it’s free. http://www.stacyreeves.com/photographers-pricing-guide
Wow! I guess I’ll consider the chord struck…
Chris Lin – You’ve posted four comments, called me an asshole, and tried to take this article to task for logic holes as if you’re looking to win a debate trophy, yet you’ve missed the essential part of what I’ve said. You haven’t addressed the real reason that I think the anon thing is dangerous. I never said that the content of their message is invalid because it’s not attached to a real name. What I DID say is that anonymity removes the essential reasons people have to think twice about the things that they say. I realize that being shielded from repercussions enables them to go after the “big guns” more indiscriminately. I’m also trying to point out that it encourages them to go after *everyone* since the social cost of calling someone a fraud is zero. It’s the carpet-bomb approach, and it’s creating actual collateral damage. It would be harmless if people weren’t listening, but people ARE. It’s not a straw man argument (though it is embellished with some choice analogies), and I’d appreciate you addressing the points that I actually made, and not the ones you think I made when you skimmed the article the first time. And if you want to out yourself as the owner of one of those accounts, I promise we’ll all be nice (wink, wink).
Eric – point taken on the “tearing down the world” bit. I’m prone to poetic hyperbole here and there, and no, it’s not literally tearing down the *world*. BUT… I still think the point’s valid. You can’t fix problems ONLY by breaking things. At a certain point, you need to start building as well, even though the breaking might seem fun. Hence the distinction between toddlers and adults. My 1-yr-old likes knocking over block towers. A lot. He’s not too keen on building them, though.
Matt – I’m a fan of the saying “When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” You, as Matt Radlinkski, are a multi-faceted person who shoots, laughs, eats, and loves… and yes, often has scathingly insightful things to say about our industry. Your barbs and arrows are balanced out by the need to be a complete human being. But the angry anon accounts exist solely for the purpose of raking people over the coals. When that’s all you DO, it’s easy to start seeing frauds and phonies everywhere. Sometimes you’ll hit the mark, sometimes you won’t.
The fact of the matter is, if you’re a real person, then I can have a discussion with you. Potentially, you can even take some positive action to fix the problems you see. If you’re just an anonymous stream of rants, it’s hard to pick up the flag and march forward with a solution.
I have to admit I have followed and laughed at some of the anonymous accounts, because, let’s face it, a lot of it is funny and true. They make some comments on the industry as a whole that everyone is thinking, and few are willing to say. They also call out people who are blatantly lying or giving our terrible advice, and I think there’s a benefit to that. However, I agree with you that if they believe it so fervently, they should be willing to put their name on it.
However, I think where they crossed the line is when they devolved into personal attacks that aren’t related to photography at all. Making fun of Scarlet and Stephen for being engaged? Making fun of Jasmine and David and Mike Colon for being friends? That’s just dumb. They’ve become childhood bullies at that point. If some kid was doing the same thing to their children, they would raise holy hell with the schools and call the kid’s parents and complain and who knows, maybe they’d try to press charges for harassment. But because it’s someone else, an adult who THEY don’t like, suddenly it has become okay.
Julia Bailey with Studio Ugly led this movement, and I think she needs to be called out for it. She was the original anonymous photographer bully, picking on photographers she didn’t like or had some beef with behind a digital mask, going so far as to spend hours in Photoshop (and probably on Facebook, looking for photos of these people who are supposedly beneath her) creating her little mock-up images, and hours on the internet researching their histories and connections. She fancies herself a detective and discoverer of truth, but the only thing she’s “discovered” is that a couple of photographers have worked together to market themselves and their products. When did that become a bad thing?
The only way this will end is if people stop listening. If they get no followers and no blog commenters, eventually they’ll get bored of talking to themselves and stop. I think that slowly but surely that’s starting to happen.
Becker,
Like Jodie said, they’re staying anonymous because they don’t want baseless legal threats, and because they don’t want the irrational ire of people who have been conned. People who have bought into something that’s too good to be true will absolutely foam at the mouth defending those who’ve victimized them because they don’t want to admit they got taken. Remember that scene in the Matrix? Where Morpheus is describing the system to Neo? “You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.”
And there are con jobs…like that girl in Florida, Scarlett, who got outed on the “truth” blog thing because she took lots of money from people for workshops and…shall we say…stretched the truth about her level of success in photography? She pretended to live a lavish lifestyle on the internet, when in fact what little money she had she got from her parents.
There’s nothing wrong with education. There’s nothing wrong with people giving seminars and workshops. They just need to do so ethically, but there is no board of accreditation for these things.
My complaint is really only with people who are not successful artists or businesspeople and never were, but sell my profession, photography, as a get rich quick scheme to the naive. I don’t think that’s right. You ask why I care? Maybe because I’m a human being, and I generally prefer to see people not ripped off? The better question is…why do you care that people are speaking up about unethical activities in the industry? Why should they shut up, and why do you want them to? Regardless of whether the anonymous whistleblower is anonymous…is he right?
Holly – Yes, this is about Alicia’s article. Many people felt that it was a disaster. But real people can engage in a discussion about it. Anonymous mud-slinging can only tell you that you’re wrong, but it can’t do anything positive to fix it. One of the commenters here contacted me privately with their concerns, and I offered to publish an article on the blog with a response. THAT’s the kind of thing that the industry needs – when something’s wrong, FIX IT, don’t just burn it to the ground and then pat yourself on the back.
The fact is, it’s HARD to organize your thoughts, and write 1000 words on a topic. It’s HARD to put together an day of workshop material and teach a room full of people. It’s HARD to put together a DVD showing people how to do something. But it’s EASY to write 140 characters saying “look at this joker, they suck.” Building is harder than breaking.
But none of these people want to do the hard work of building something. Everyone’s a fraud… now what? If you don’t like Dane’s book, write a better one (or at least promote a better one). If you don’t Jasmine’s seminars, hold a better one. The fact is, as [ b ] said, newcomers to the industry are hungry for answers. If you’re convinced they’re getting the wrong ones, you can’t just tear everyone down and leave nothing in its place. And the building needs to be done by REAL PEOPLE.
Regarding Alicia’s article, I have to admit that what you did didn’t exactly help the problem. The article was left up when it was getting all positive comments, but as soon as people started criticizing it, it was taken down. Although I’m clearly biased because I was one of the commenters, people were offering legitimate alternative viewpoints and options – they were doing exactly what you ask people to do, provide a solution. But you removed it. Stuff like that only fuels the belief that Matt mentioned, that people who have bought into something will do anything to protect it from criticism. Sure, it’s your blog and you have a right to control the content.. But don’t say you want people to offer a solution, then shut them down when they do.
All right, Doug, I get you. I can definitely can definitely come down on the side opposing collateral damage. That’s not cool.
Matt – Again, I’m not trying to silence people who are speaking up against unethical activities. I’m all for that, and I think it’s important that people DO those kinds of things. I’m just trying to point out that with no social consequences, the anons are easily slipping into unethical territory themselves, and that putting them on a pedestal as champions belies the fact that they are simultaneously behaving as villains. We’re so eager to see the Scarlett’s of the world burned at the stake that we’re letting relatively innocent people get burned, too.
Which comes right back to Alicia Cane and Happy Places. The beefs that people have with her article are genuine, and valid. But with the current state of things, people immediately jumped into calling her a bullshit artist. It immediately because nasty and personal because everyone’s in witch-hunt mode. Kristen started deleting comments because we have a “no nasties” policy. It’s like cable news – everyone’s always screaming at the top of their lungs, and it makes a real discussion hard.
Alicia’s article should have been debated on its merits. Instead, the tone was set at the beginning as “burn the fraud!” The critical difference is that Alicia is not a scam artist or a fraud. She’s a very nice girl who’s giving what she feels is the best advice she has. And the worst part about the way people reacted is that her advice was 100% focused on making people happy. She genuinely was trying to provide solutions to people that would improve their lives. But she got lumped on the fire with Scarlett and company. That’s just plain not OK. Well intentioned people doing the wrong thing SHOULD NOT be treated the same as malicious and cynical con artists. It’s destructive and irresponsible to lump them together.
Stacy – you’re absolutely right about how that was handled. That’s part of why it was re-posted, but in light of this discussion, I think it’s worthwhile to open up comments again. And I’m still hoping to have an article to post with an alternative viewpoint.
Fact is, I’ve never had to handle a situation like this with Totally Rad. We either get nice people, or people with a mean tone and nothing to add. This is the first time we’ve had to draw a line between people disagreeing thoughtfully, and people who are just slinging mud. We’ll try to walk the line and see how it goes. I’m going to re-open comments right now.
Sorry Doug, but I don’t buy that. You reposted the article – but deleted all the comments that provided alternative solutions. They weren’t “nasty,” they were constructive. They posted links to other pricing guides (yes, including mine) and described other methods of determining pricing. They weren’t insulting Alicia, they were debating her methods. I didn’t see a single person insult Alicia there. I saw people call her method irresponsible – and then provide a method they believed was responsible. Like I said, people did exactly what you asked them to do, they provided a solution, and you shut them down.
Darn it, Doug, in one breath you admit to engaging in poetic hyperbole, and then right after that you do it all over again.
To speak in lofty language such as “You can’t fix problems ONLY by breaking things” again misstates the issue. Anonymous criticism doesn’t by nature “break things”. If anything, it is more akin to curing cancer by cutting away the tumor.
And yes, destroying a tumor is a good thing.
There is NOTHING that needs “rebuilding” in our industry. We’ve never had better tools (cameras, computers, software, albums, etc) than we have today. There are plenty of talented photographers, too. Arguably TOO many. So that doesn’t need “fixing” either.
The industry could use a colon cleansing, though. More fiber and fewer empty calories.
Stacy – again, I apologize. We mishandled that because we don’t have any real experience dealing with such situations. I’d re-post the comments, but with Moveable Type I think they are actually deleted for good. I’ve re-opened comments on the article and invited people to re-post their thoughts. We’re learning as we go, but I don’t want to stifle debate. I did yesterday, but I don’t think that was the right way to handle it. Again, we’ve never had to give much thought to things on our blog beyond “delete mean, baseless comments.”
But again, I have to emphasize that it’s only by real, credible people saying things that productive things actually get accomplished. If you had come on here posting as “snarkymeanphotog” I would have told you to fuck off :)
Eric,
Yes, it’s poetic hyperbole again, but no, it doesn’t mis-state the issue. See my response to Matt a few comments back. Anonymous critics are behaving less like surgeons and more like barbers. They’re amputating instead of removing the tumor. And they’re only able to do so under the cloak of anonymity.
Awesome words.
Wait, I called you an asshole?
Oh that. Reread it, all four paragraphs. Get it?
I’m late to the party here, mostly because I’ve debated whether to speak up or not. But here’s my take….
Yes, there are way too many wolves in sheep’s clothing in this industry. Nothing pisses me off more than a few so-called “photographers” who sell crap/seminars to newbies when they couldn’t shoot their way out of a paper bag. Do I think these people have any business teaching photographers how to shoot and market, when they haven’t shot a wedding themselves in 5 years? No way, Jose. That makes me mad. Especially because I work my butt off, shooting 25++ weddings a year, while raising babies and helping to run a software business.
But, I don’t think anonymous, mean-spirited critique is the way to fix it. Especially when that critique often comes down on a certain OC lady who DOES actually shoot weddings for a living (I know this, because we often meet with the same clients and I often see her “out in the field,” so to speak.) I find the anonymous critique cowardly and counter-productive and sometimes WAY over the line, as in when they question people’s religious views, say nasty things about their children, etc.
So what do I propose we DO about it (if cowardly critique is not the answer)? I propose we STFU and SHOOT. Share our images, share our secrets, be open and available to new-comers. This is how I have tried to live my life and I *hope* that new photographers have benefited from it. Will I ever be like Dane or David, teaching 50 city tours around the country? No. Simply put, I don’t have their sizzle. But I can help a few photographer learn the ropes, and so can you. And if we all do that in our own small way, my hope is that newcomers will *finally* have something to look to, instead of the big tours or usual suspects.
And, before you say it, I know I’m being optimistic. And I’m shitting sunshine and rainbows right now. But you know what? Optimism and open-sharing and hard-work is a tactic we haven’t tried in a while. Let’s give it a whirl.
If your business is flourishing how do you have time for constant twitter/facebook/ talk shows/stalking and being jealous of other photographers’ sites and blogs/ etc.? You would be busy making unforgettable memories for clients and getting hugely awesome orders out the door. With todays economic state let’s plan on focusing our time and hard earned money on making our businesses a better place through humbleness and integrity instead of flying to cities to hear dried up photographers (whose businesses are clearly failing) speak and put on a dog and pony show. I agree with one of the above posts. If they have such an incredible business that we hope to one day have, how do they have all the time to travel around the country and speak??!! Hmmmmmm………
In response to Matt:
I don’t see what is wrong with following your dream. Granted, not everyone is practical and financially acute, but other arts get a waiver on this, and photography doesn’t?
Lots of people become writers and actors, and major in stuff like philosophy. Those people went into those knowing that it won’t be as easy to get a job as to become say a nurse or a programmer. But you know, it’s their life.
Also, in general I dislike anonymous comments. You just have to read youtube comments to see what happens when people are allowed to say whatever is in their head without accountability.
Dear Chris,
You and I are both starting to resemble this guy, and it’s not becoming to either of us:
http://xkcd.com/386/
Well said Doug. Before I decided to venture into photography as a profession I spent 8 years as a practicing attorney, and the BS I see posted all the time by anonymous or fake identities far exceeds the crazy sh*t I witnessed as a trial attorney.
Couple of things:
1) I agree that the issue is not WHAT the anonymous commenter has to say, it’s the fact that they are too chicken to put themselves out there and stand by their opinion. Dialogue and debate about the photo industry are a good thing and should be encouraged. But if you truly believe in what you say, don’t hide behind your fake twitter handle – value yourself and your opinion enough to use your real name.
2) The means by which many photographers choose to communicate to one another is deplorable. We had a rule at the law firm I worked at – if you would be embarrassed to have a judge read your letter/email or listen in on your phone conversation, then don’t write or say it. Judges would often read attorney correspondence in the course of a trial and judges were very harsh on attorneys that acted like children. Honestly the only attorneys I knew that engaged in that kind of trash talking were the ones that sucked.
Whatever happened to integrity? How about the golden rule?
3) Photographers listen up – you cannot be sued for libel and/or slander for stating your opinion. By definition opinion does not equal defamation, so long as it is clearly stated as an opinion. Do not let another photographer or some anonymous commenter convince you otherwise. People with integrity and honest, helpful opinions need to stop cowering in a corner and know your rights. Opinion and discourse are a GOOD thing.
However, if you state a comment as if you are stating facts, and those facts could be detrimental to someone’s business, you better be 100% sure you got your facts right, or you are crossing the line into actionable defamation and you better lawyer up.
The world is a complicated place. There is a complex ecosystem, which revolves around various members of the food chain. There are lions, sharks, eagles, snakes, zebra, worms, cute fuzzy bunnies, and mosquitos.
The lion can sit around calling the mosquito a mosquito and complaining that they have bug bites and that poor old ladies are dying of malaria. Meanwhile the zebra is calling out the lion to get off his high horse, he’s just a ruthless killer. Etc, Etc.
In the end, we need to accept that everyone has their place, and to be comfortable with our own.
I do love me some xkcd. I prefer linking to the original comic, myself.
Chris,
Ah, I didn’t know where that had come from… one of my engineers showed it to me last week and I just Googled to find it. Comment updated.
Chenin said “So what do I propose we DO about it (if cowardly critique is not the answer)? I propose we STFU and SHOOT.”
THAT line completely sums it all up.
It is obvious through many online forums/sites that there is a “tension” flowing through the industry. Sure there’s many sides to a story from many different viewpoints, but the constant “back & forth” banter, that resembles political campaigns on an election year, gets us all nowhere.
Free speech FTW. However, actions can be even more powerful. Be like Nike and just do it.
With that said, that’s my two cents and all I have to say about the topic. Now back to working…
You make a blanket statement that the anonymous personas spend their whole time whining and complaining. That’s completely untrue.
Yes, they took the 2 minutes to make a twitter account and another 5 for a blogger account. But these people hardly update their status or tweet. Days or weeks go by before you see a tweet or a blog post.
It’s irresponsible for you to make that statement. You don’t know them in real life, you don’t know their ‘real’ twitter account. For all I’m concern their lives are fill with double rainbows and unicorns.
On the other hand, industry leaders send out massive & even automated tweets about their products and services. And they do this on a daily basis. I had to unfollow them.
Chenin and Doug, I find it interesting that now BOTH of you have piped up in here with your “STFU” suggestions.
You do know that that acronym stands for “Shut the fuck up”, yes? How is that any more civilized than an anonymous poster making a statement? I hope you aren’t implying that certain of us get to make posts and state their positions, but the rest of us should just shut the fuck up?
I know you’re just using “STFU” as hipster lingo. But still…the message that comes through is “Hey, this is OUR blog, and even though comments are allowed, they are frowned upon.”
People have differing opinions and different methods of expressing them. And folks, don’t kid yourselves: these “anonymous” posters are probably also posting with their names, in other venues.
I actually enjoy a good dialogue. I think the next dialogue topic should be: “Douche-y or Not?”
For example, if you are “available for worldwide travel”? Douche-y. Are you following your dream because you’ve always had a “Passion” for photography? Douche-y. Do you charge people for your photography services, or is it an “Investment”? Such an “investment” would be, in my humble opinion: douche-y.
And finally, if there are more photos of YOURSELF on your blog than of actual paying clients…well, you know.
These are all symptoms of how the cloning within our industry is slowly destroying our healthy DNA. And yes, these are topics for another blog post…but are also indicative of the “anonymous” posts that cause so much vitriol amongst those whose nerve it hits. Or those who have a financial state in selling their cloning services.
Well well well well weeeellll. What a nice “find” this morning while sipping my coffee and watching Sunrise Earth on the Discovery Channel. ;)
Where the hell do I start?
First off…I think we, you, I and everyone for that matter needs to pay attention to what is being said. Negative or positive….real or fake. Don’t dismiss the message just because the messenger chooses to be anonymous. IMHO.
OK so, I personally have been following the utter explosion of the underground industry twitter bashers since its inception back in April/May-ish. Right after that train wreck of a workshop in Florida. Ha! Although, most of us who have been in the game for 3+ years know there has been a strong under-current in the industry. Exploring and understanding the perspectives people in every crack and crevasse of the photography industry is important to me and my “industry career.” Social media had acted as a catalysts to help the Rockstars promote/pimp products, resources and workshops AND, interestingly enough, the individuals who are bashing them are broadcasting on the same channel! Imagine watching an infomercial selling some revolutionary gadget….then a couple seconds later someone comes on saying how much of a piece of crap it is!
Real quick I wanted to share a piece of a message that was sent to a large group of photographers that I wrote. Yes this was sent with the real me…not some anonymous account.
“Recently, while in a room with some of the “top” photographers in the industry, something blew me away! A question was asked, “Who’s businesses are up right now?” What was surprising to me was that over 90% did NOT raise their hands. I was FLOORED! Trying to wrap my head around this I asked, “Who in the room actually created a business plan when they started their business?” Again, over 90% sat still… You know where I’m going with this and I’m not trying to be negative.”
I was so blown away because many of these photogs are our industry leaders, teachers and influencers. This gave birth to the Tweet/FB Status update from my personal account saying, “Ummmm….if you teach people how to be successful in their biz….shouldn’t YOU be successful in your own biz too?” Boy oh boy did that get people talking. It actually led to a private FB message from a “big name” who actually agreed and confirmed that many of the Rockstars are full of crap and don’t have successful businesses of their own.
I’m sure initially these rockstars wanted to “give back” AND an opportunity to make some money. (Side note: With that being said, charging for knowledge, time and experience has a value. If someone is gonna help someone else be more successful, they should charge for that.) I’m sure and hope most photogs realize that they will never retire with their fees learned as a photographer and should think about their exit plan from shooting weddings. The rockstars are doing just that, they are capitalizing on their industry popularity and connections for their new venture(s). Most of them preach “making you a part of your business” is the way to make it as a photographer. Well that can work for a “photographer to client” business. On the flipside though, “photographer to photographer” is a different ball game. Self-promotion amongst peers is not well received by the masses. In addition, running one successful business is tough, running two is nearly impossible. Here are some of the problems I see that the rockstars are doing, not that I’m a guru or anything. These are just my observations:
1) Egos are not scalable and should not be a part of a business plan.
2) Popularity is almost impossible to make a living from. Some exceptions are Opra or Doctor Phil.
3) Being a great preachers is not same as being a great teachers. Inspiration has an expiration date.
4) It’s not 2006 – 2007 anymore! Those years were freaking easy as shit for most photographers! Consumer spending was at an all-time high. Although times have changed and what worked back then is not completely relevant now.
5) Making it look really easy is setting people up for failure. Building a scalable, sustainable and profitable business takes time. Period.
6) Be more transparent. If you haven’t booked or shot for a client in 5 years and/or don’t my a majority of your income from shooting…make that clear….and stop teaching others “your way.” Oh and drop the effin “photographer” title.
Well I did get off topic a little although that felt great to put in words! I’d write more but my clients need my attention. ;)
~Rob
Eric: I think you misunderstood me. I don’t mean people commenting on here or people who are contributing to a useful dialogue should STFU. I mean *everyone* should. As in, let’s stop worrying about politics and egos and whose business is a sham and get back to our roots, i.e. making photos.
Eric,
Douchey or not would be a good post / discussion on its own :) As for the STFU acronym… I’m more interested in accountability than civility. Tempers can flare and people should be allowed to vent – but if you know it’s attached to your name, you’ll at least think about whether you want to personally be remembered for saying something. Otherwise, as another commenter noted, the world starts to look like a YouTube comment board, and that’s just sad. Calling someone a loser is okay in my book. Spray-painting “loser” on their car is not.
Rob – amen. Full disclosure is important, and honestly, people should be asking those questions. When you go to a workshop – ask “how many weddings did you shoot this year? Can I see your company’s P&L?” THAT is the kind of stuff that will solve the cRockstar problem. When Chenin and I were teaching workshops, we tried to be as transparent as possible, because you’re right – it’s a good check on bullshit.
I think the whole ego and popularity thing is the main problem. Many Rock Star photogs have gone from Hero to Zero in the past year and clearly freaking out!! So to make themselves look better they tweet all their accolades all day hoping people will not know they are going under. Fast!! I think the year 2011 will be the deciding factor. Are we going to pump up these Rock Star wanna be’s egos and max out our credit cards going to hear them speak about nothing or stay home and take care of our own baby/toddler of a business and fulfill our own personal life long passions and dreams? Think about it now and stand firm. Many clients would rather go to a studio who caters to clients as opposed to one trying to impress peers. Clients are the bread and butter and where you truly create a name for yourself in the public.
I was so surprised to hear feedback on my blog post yesterday a week after it was actually posted and I guess I missed out on all the fun in the comment section as it was taken down before I had a chance to read it.
Ignorance is bliss this time :)
Being a mom to 5 and running a business- I don’t have time to stay on top of drama.
I encourage other people’s opinions because there are TONS of them out there that work! My ideas were examples- they weren’t me saying “I think everyone should do this”. Not everyone is called to the same lifestyle- not everyone finds happiness in having a multi-million dollar studio. There are people out there that do photography not for the identity that it gives them, but because it puts food on their table and brings them joy in the process. I am on of those people who have been blessed by being a part of this industry. By having a photography business- I was able to be in my happy place in being hands on full time doing the most important thing in my life- being a mom who just so happened to be a photographer who had a studio.
That’s right- I’m a mom with a camera and darn proud of it! How much I made doing this business is insignificant…whether it was only $1K or $100K.
Last year, I closed the doors of my studio so I could move from Montana to Pennsylvania (simplifying my life to be in my happy place!) and now focus my working time to doing pricing consults with other photographers who had similiar goals in life that I had as well as growing and shaping Easy As Pie. I haven’t marketed what I do as it has been built on word of mouth alone and through the generous posts of amazing photographer-resources in the industry. My reputation has spoken for itself— which is why I fear nothing of this said “witch-hunt” that seems to have my name on the roster of con-artists who feed on newbie photographers.
Maybe I should be bothered by this….but I guess I am not. I work very hard at what I do- working with photographers who put the food on my table has not been “easy as pie”. It’s just as hard as when I had my studio. It’s a full time job which I invest more than 40 hours a week to. But the joy that it brings me in coming along side photographers in this industry, building them up, encouraging them— THAT is why I do what I do. I’m hoping to join the leaders in the industry that are here to come along side those who have a passion and really help them shine in what they do best.
Thank you to all who took the time to give their thoughts, their different perspectives and their opinions. I appreciate having a platform to stand on to give a persepctive that has worked for me and might be a blessing in someone elses life.
Stacy, and others who expressed dissenting opinions –
My apologies for deleting your comments — as Doug said, this whole being controversial/comment moderation bit is rather new to us. We’ve taken a pretty hard line about not peeing in the pool prior to this, so I pre-emptively identified comments as pool-pee-ers.
The next controversy will have much more…controversy…in the comment section. Promise.
Doug wrote: When you go to a workshop – ask “how many weddings did you shoot this year? Can I see your company’s P&L?” THAT is the kind of stuff that will solve the cRockstar problem.
…So you’re suggesting consumer research/accountability? Personally, I’d suggest people ask the hard questions PRIOR to spending their money on a workshop, rather than asking AT the workshop (which they’ve already paid for). It kinda avoids the whole: Here’s your $2,500. BTW, how many weddings do you shoot in a year? …Five. Can I have my money back? Sorry, you already attended the workshop.
c
I’m of the opinion that the net effect of these anonymous Twitter accounts is positive. Are there unnecessary ad hominem attacks? Yes. Are there sour grapes for some? Maybe. But the facts and criticism should be considered separate from the messenger. If they prevent one person from getting conned and losing money, good.
Speaking publicly _and_ anonymously is an important right of a free and open society–precisely because it allows people to bring facts to light without the fear of retribution. This is especially important today because we live in such a litigious society. Whistleblowers within public corporations and government agencies have legal protection–random citizens and small business owners within an industry don’t. It makes sense that some behind these accounts want to protect their own businesses and families from frivolous lawsuits.
All that being said, good post and a good discussion.
Matt – your whistle blower analogy misses the mark. In your analogy, the whistle blower has a conflict of interest in that he gains a competitive advantage if both the roofer and the roof fail.
A better analogy for what’s taking place in the photography industry is the food/dining industry. Most consumers in today’s economy prefer to do their own cooking. When they do go out to have a “pro” cook for them, it’s usually fast/junk food. Now, the consumer recognizes there’s better quality food out there, but they don’t care and they don’t want to pay for it. Put simply, the average consumer is content with the cheap over-saturated, fatty, not-good-for-you junk.
Comparing this to photography, most are content to take pictures themselves. When they need a “pro” the average middle class consumer is content with what you call junk. The consumer may recognize there’s better photography out, but they don’t care and they don’t want to pay a premium for it. It’s just not a priority in their lives. I know you want it to be – but it’s not! The consumer has choices…they’re choosing the cheaper photog instead of you. Let’s face it, if a bride has $2000 to spend…and she can choose between Matt Radlinski at $2000 or a Craig’s List photog for $500 plus a $1500 shopping spree at Nordstroms….95% will choose the latter. They know you have better skills – they just don’t care to pay for it.
For Matt and all the ‘zilla wanna be’s, their real enemy is consumer preference – not Dane or Jasmine. Dane has simply recognized that in this shifting climate where consumers don’t care as much about photographic differentiation, you need to focus more on marketing. This doesn’t make him a conman, this makes him a realist. He’s giving the same advice that every other consultant in every other industry is giving their clients.
Matt – fancy New York restaurants learned long ago that complaining that McDonald’s was ruining the food industry or that consumers don’t show adequate appreciation for culinary skills is futile. Instead, they accept the fast food industry as a reality and focus their efforts on the high end consumer who appreciates their skills. Eventually, I think you’ll come to that same conclusion
My gosh. This is ridiculous. All of you need to log off and go give your spouse/child/ or freaking neighbor a hug.
Stop investing so much of your time caring what other people are doing.
Go live your life and BE FREE of the drama people!
Life is too short, and yes people are stupid, but why should you care! If you have a successful studio, then wake up every day grateful for that and be content with the life you get to lead.
Who cares what mistakes others make, try your best to help those around you and GO LIVE YOUR LIFE!
We all have opinions, yes. But allow others to have their too. I guarantee that your nasty comments aren’t changing anybodies lives or their opinions for that matter.
It is evident in the portfolios on websites of many “wanna be/think they are’s” that the quality of art has been greatly diminished due to their over concern with what others are doing and jealousy. Sad thing is…these are the ones who are doing speaking engagements and many of us are the ones scrambling to hear them speak and paying dearly for it in more than one way. It is putting a dent in our pocketbooks, taking time away from studios/businesses, but more importantly…time away from our families and children which should be our FIRST priority!!
Guys,
Eric doesn’t like a potty mouth. Especially the word fuck.
Signed,
A glassy eyed newb.
Nadine:
There’s nothing wrong with following your dream. Just if that dream is to be a photographer, you’re immediately going to preyed upon by the Seminar Industrial Complex. And generally the loudest voices (those with the best marketing) are peddling the worst advice because…it’s all they do. They’re people who don’t actually shoot anything. They just pretend to so they can sell stuff to naive newcomers. And what they’re selling is invariably the easiest, shortest, get-rich-quickiest solution because that’s what people want to hear. Doesn’t work, of course.
Which, quite honestly….I should just shut up and be fine with. I used to worry more about competition in my markets, but seeing what so many of the newcomers believe and what they do, and their methods for “becoming a professional photographer…” Quite honestly it’s never been easier to stand out against that sea of terrible photography and ham-handed “me too!” marketing. I should be grateful that most of my new competition is being led so ineptly.
Chenin:
That’s a great example of the collateral damage Doug was talking about. Jasmine got a bunch of flack on DWF recently, but she’s somebody who’s actually working, shooting good weddings for high rates. People badmouthing her can only just be jealous.
Wow. Not sure what is worst…the people who are taking advantage of others and negatively effecting the industry……………….or the people who turn their backs on it and ignore it all together. If everyone took this stance, our whole society would fail.
“Sorry stupid people, I can’t help you. I have to go be happy and successful. Good luck with everything though!”
LOL @ “Seminar Industrial Complex” – this is why I end up reading stuff Matt writes :)
In re-reading your article I’m reminded of the temper tantrums my sister had as a child just picturing a red-faced angry child stomping their feet because they don’t like something and want it to go away. My sister threw a fit once because she didn’t like grass, but when you’re outside it’s everywhere and it drove my parents to the brink of insanity until one day she realized that no amount of screaming and yelling would make the grass go away, sometimes you just have to deal with it and it’s easier to do so when you aren’t screaming.
Anonymous posting used to be the norm of the internet, call me old school but I find it strange so many people are posting under their real names, have facebook accounts and twitter and foursqaure to invite people in to every little aspect of their lives. Sharing what you look like, where you live, what you do and now where you ARE at any given moment doesn’t seem to me as the best possible thing you can do, but it seems as though that’s the new norm.
So, some people on the internet picked on you, picked on other photographers, so what? If their opinion doesn’t matter if they don’t have a name why acknowledge it, why engage them? Your little rant up here is childish, and yes anonymous posters are too, but they are expected to be, YOU are expected to be professional. This article is not a shining example of professionalism, is it? Do you even see the fallacy in your argument.
Anonymous posters rejoice, you have won! Here’s someone that’s stooped as low as you, but doesn’t even know it.
Don’t really see it as turning our backs on the industry so much as being sucked into it. Once again….if those we were paying high fees to go hear speak were so wonderful how could they take weeks away from their businesses and families at a time? Just saying quit focusing on what everyone else is doing and be contented with yourselves. And remember everything is not always as it seems on the outside. Some people just tell you what you want to hear but do not practice it in their own lives and business. Sad…but oh so true!!