***UPDATE*** – I think I might have already found the right couples for this project, so for the time being, let’s consider the deal done (in other words, I’m booked up…) Thanks to everyone who sent a message, and best of luck to all of you with your weddings! Oh, and comments are closed, too. Thanks to the pros who expressed their concern for the well-being of the industry. I’ll try not to ruin anyone’s day/life/wedding/etc. :)
I have several ideas kicking around in my head, and I’d like to let them out. These are ideas about wedding photography that have been germinating since back when I was shooting professionally. In 2011, I’d like to make them happen. I’m looking for a handful of couples getting married in 2011, who will let me create some art on their wedding day. Here’s the deal:
- I’ll shoot for free. I’m not aiming to make money, just to make some images that I can be proud of, and since I don’t know if the ideas will work out, I’m not comfortable charging money anyway. This is strictly experimental. So I’ll cover the cost of materials, travel, assistants, etc.
- You’ll get a digital copy of my final product, with the right to reproduce the images for personal use. I may or may not actually print anything, but you’ll certainly get a copy of the retouched final images (though there may only be a few).
- You’ll still need to hire a wedding photographer. I’m going to be treading down a new path with some of these concepts, and I can’t guarantee that anything good will result at all. I’m pretty confident I can make the photos I want, but I’m not 100% sure that they’ll be an adequate substitute for real, professional wedding photography. So you’ll need to have someone there to do the “real” wedding photography.
- California would be great, but I’ll travel for the right wedding. In order to make this work, I need the right couples at the right venues. If that’s in my neighborhood, great! But I’m more committed to making the best images possible, so if you’re really interested, and you live far away, contact me anyway.
If you’re interested, (see update above) drop me a line with some details about yourself and your wedding. We’ll talk a bit about what I have in mind, and if we connect, you just might end up with some amazing, unexpected mementos of your wedding.
Wait, so you want to “Uncle Bob” a wedding? I have in my contract, like so many other photogs, that I’m the exclusive photographer. Sounds like you’d really need to have a chat with the “real” photographer before you do anything well in advance, as this could be so messy.
Ouch.
You’re either good enough to shoot and not screw up an entirely unique event that can never be re-created or you’re not. Don’t shoot along side another paid photographer – they’re likely relying on print sales and keep their event fee low. Plus, there’s a reason we keep strict rules when shooting formals. Not because we’re stingy, but when there’s a dozen cameras in the room every single member of the wedding party will be looking in a different direction.
And don’t give it away for free, first you’ll never shake the ‘free wedding photographer’ label and you’ll make every professional that has paid their ‘dues’ in your area come after you with pitchforks. We don’t mind competition, but at least be worthy and not trying to just throw us all into the fire by offering what we offer for free.
If you’re good – have some respect for yourself. Don’t give away a valuable skill like wedding photography (and let’s not beat around the bush, it is a skill) for free. And if you’re not and you want to learn, be an assistant for an already established photographer.
With an ‘ad’ like this, you’ll get a bride and groom to allow you to shoot your wedding and they’ll miss the fine print and won’t hire anyone else. They won’t get the tried and true ‘must have’ shots – those are the ones that become family heirlooms. It’s not fair to you, to other photographers or the bride and groom.
Alan + Mary,
With all due respect, I’m entering into this with full awareness of what it means to have another cook in the kitchen, and with 100% commitment to make sure that the paid professional will get what they need on the wedding day. Ultimately, it’s up to the couple to determine who shoots and when. If we all can’t come to an agreement, I’ll find another couple. No harm done. Very different from Uncle Bob.
For what it’s worth, I’m not trying to build a portfolio, and I’m not trying to “go pro.” Been there, done that… probably close to 200 times. I want to shoot these because, plain and simple, I feel compelled to. The whole point of this is to explore other ways to shoot a wedding that don’t work inside the proverbial box. If it’s not plain already that this isn’t a craigslist ad from a wannabe pro, then I honestly can’t help you out.
Though I respect the sentiment, and the desire to protect the wedding photo industry, you’ve entirely missed the point here.
What I got from this, and I could be wrong, you aren’t there to get the must have shots, the cookie cutter posed formals of the bridal party, or anything of that sort. (hence the, ‘you still need to hire another photographer for this shots’) how I interpreted it, you want to explore the other side of wedding photography, getting different shots, different angles, different scenarios of the bride and groom together, different venues, ect… I say go for it! I think it would be fun, and if I were getting married again, I would hire you and love for you to feel free and explore all the different possibilities of different photographs at my wedding. good luck!!
Last time I knew, your wife was a wedding photographer. Why not just do this at one of her upcoming weddings.
That way you can avoid the issues mentioned by the other commenters.
Wicked! I really hope someone takes you up on this dude…..can’t wait to see what ideas you have cookin up.
I’m shocked to see some of those posts above. Those people really missed the point in a big way, and they obviously don’t know what you’re capable of.
How about this – if you find the right couple for your experimental work, if they don’t have the main photographer yet let me know the wedding date. If I’m not already booked, I’ll fly out from Vancouver and shoot the official stuff. I think it could be a blast!
T
I doubt a hired photographer will let this happen, unless you work directly under him or her….there has to be a project manager or things will be a free for all. Why not assist or second shoot for an already established wedding photographer and learn the proper way, rather than winging it? Then once you have the training and experience you need, you can work your own and charge accordingly.
So I’m confused, you’re already a pro? Sorry if my response was off base if that’s the case….just seen so many posts like I thought this one was.
I searched, your work is awesome, and I understand your idea…..but the trick is getting it worked out with the hired photographer. But now I’m curious to see results if it happens :)
I totally understand you have a vision and an idea. In fact, I’m always jealous of my 2nd shooters at weddings because they have the freedom to feel out an idea or process, while I need to get the “money” shots of the day.
However, if you weren’t part of my team, there’s just no way I’d be up for letting someone else shoot. They don’t know you, your work, your style, what you will do. Since you’ve been a pro before, I’m sure you get that. As the hired photographer it is my job to get the best shots/angles/lighting of the day to my clients… and having another person shooting I didn’t know just wouldn’t work for me.
If a guy with a 5D came up to me before a wedding and said he’s shooting the wedding too, I would have major concerns. That person could tell me they’ve shot 200 weddings and I still wouldn’t care.
As for the Craig’s List reference, I understand you’re a pro and have done it before. But read your “ad” again. If I didn’t read it on your site and know who you were, and just saw it posted somewhere randomly… it absolutely sounds like a posting on CL.
As past pro and having an incredibly talented wife who is a pro photographer, surely you can find a friend willing to let you “2nd” and do your own thing. They know you and will be confident you won’t take away from what you’re doing.
I didn’t write these posts with any disrespect, and I honestly don’t think I’ve missed the point. All of us wedding photogs crave to do something different at a wedding.
Mary,
Apologies for addressing both you and Alan with the same reply. I think he was missing the point more. Again, I do understand how YOU would have concerns with having another photographer running around getting in the way. I would have the same concerns. But that’s ultimately not a good enough reason to just say “oh well” and not put this out there.
I may end up asking Chenin to approach some of her 2011 clients, but ultimately I think this is something that the wedding couple needs to bring to the mix themselves. I wouldn’t want to use her goodwill and rapport to push this on someone who is lukewarm about it. I’m okay with the other vendors being lukewarm about the idea, but the couple needs to be totally 100% behind it.
Lastly, 3 of the 4 concepts I’d like to shoot will probably be relatively unintrusive to the other photographer. One of them will require some time carved from the day, but it won’t necessarily get in anyone’s way.
Remember, the whole point here is to do it DIFFERENTLY. The trouble with Uncle Bobs is that they’re trying to do the same thing the “Real” photographer is doing, and having a shadow causes problems. I’ve shot weddings where there was another experienced photographer snapping all day, and it wasn’t a problem. Honestly, one guest with a point and shoot during formals will cause more of a ruckus than an experienced shooter who’s mindful of staying out of the way snapping all day. In short, the reality of this project is probably very different from the typical Uncle Bob scenario that most photographers get bent out of shape about.
And Jay – your comments cracked me up :) I can totally understand the confusion.
Um, if I were getting married I would have you there in a heart beat. (quicker even). I honestly think it is exciting. AND, as a wedding photographer, I totally understand how fun this would be. I guess I see it as contributing to the greater whole rather than “this is MY wedding and I am the only photographer”. You are too professional to be an uncle bob ;)
Doug, I cannot WAIT to see the final outcome.
I love it and I hope it pans out.
This statement is really telling:
I’m okay with the other vendors being lukewarm about the idea, but the couple needs to be totally 100% behind it.
So you don’t want to piss off your wife, but you don’t care about upsetting the hired photographer.
On second thought, I can understand not wanting to piss off your wife. :)
Seriously, saying that you don’t care if other vendors are lukewarm about it shows a disrepect that really surprises me.
I think you might have a better chance doing this for a low-budget couple that can’t afford a main photographer, and agreeing to do some of the tradditional shots as a trade off for your concept shots.
Either way, looking forward to seeing the outcome.
Mike,
No disrespect was intended. The fact is, however that photographers tend to get posessive about “their” weddings, and THAT idea is the disrespectful one. At the end of the day, if the couple is behind it, then everyone else just needs to get on board. My comment is more reflective of the reality that NO photographer would want me there, if it was all the same to them. Not because I wood be getting in the way per se, but just because photographers are like that. Just like most photographers would prefer not to have a videographer, dj, or caterer there as well. That’s a reality I can live with to make these pictures, so long as the couple getting married wants them.
I do agree that all vendors, including photographers, need to remember that the day is about the couple.
You are right, in many cases, photographers seem to think the day is about them. I think it has to do with the fact that the feel an extreme amount of pressure to produce quality work under trying conditions, and in many cases, their business model depends on print sales. Although this is changing.
If you are a photographer that depends on print sales, and another pro is there shooting for free and providing the images to the couple, it isn’t about ego, but lost revenue that is driving the conern.
Mike,
Ah, I hadn’t considered the print sales undercutting thing. That’s certainly not my intent, and I’ll give some consideration as to how to minimize that. (I do agree, however, that depending on print sales for revenues is a dead end in the era of digital files on CD and guest images on Flickr)
Yea I was totally caught off guard and confused by your original post and was astonished when I saw what work you have done….the two didn’t match up since I didn’t already know you, so I hope you will be understanding :)
My concern would be same as Mary’s….with me taking the shots the couple needs and not being to focus as much effort getting the creative vision images, that could make the second shooter look better, which in turn gives you an almost unfair advantage in that respect. My concern would be more of that, and not as much about print sales. I really hope it works out for you, you certainly do really nice work!